When you say you’ve been “involved” with a record deal, what exactly does that entail?
It’s different in each situation. With [Master] P’s deal, for example, I was involved because one of the guys in his camp didn’t trust the people that were doing the deal for him. It turned out that they were trustworthy, but because they had a very close relationship with Priority, they were worried that there may have been a conflict of interest.
Do you ever help choose which artists a label will sign, like, do you play an A&R role at all?
Not at all. In most situations [the artist] is in a position where they’ve got some leverage, but they haven’t decided to sign yet. I’m kind of a matchmaker. I try to pair the artist with the label that’s best suited for them, because every label is different. Elektra, for example, had the best radio relationships, when they were at their height. It really depends on what the label and the artist needs, I try to find a match that fits so they can both move forward. If you look at all the deals I’ve done, they’ve all gone onto gold or platinum status. That’s more important to me than someone just having a record deal.
Have you ever declined to do a deal because you didn’t think it would turn out gold or platinum?
I refused to do the deal with B.G. at Koch because I didn’t think that was the best place for him. I gave him my opinion and told him what to look out for, because I didn’t believe he should do that deal. I didn’t believe that Koch could take him platinum, and as it turned out, they couldn’t. Someone [like B.G.] who was double platinum doesn’t turn around and only sell 200,000 units. That’s just unacceptable. But I have to give them credit because they did better with his CD than I thought they would. I didn’t think they could break 100,000, but they broke 200,000. So I have to give them credit for being less whack then I thought they would be.
Is there any artist that you think could go platinum on Koch?
I think B.G. is a platinum artist, but on Koch, no. Koch is not set up to make their artists platinum. Koch is setup to advance a certain amount of money and make a decent return on their investment. And once they reach the level where they feel they have done enough, they move onto the next project. And they make no secret about that. It’s not a bad thing, that’s just their business philosophy. The problem is when an artist signs to a label and thinks their business philosophy should be different. Of course it’s not going to change; it’s corporate structure.
When you started out, how did you get the connections with these record labels to understand how they operate?
Keeping my eyes open and asking a lot of artists what their deals entailed, learning who was good at what. Twelve years of grinding, going to music conferences, one-on-one meetings with the labels and artists. It’s a building process. Every year I meet more and more people as I build my repertoire.
When did you start the Rap Coalition?
In March of 1992. It’s twelve years old. It’s still non-profit. It’s more powerful now than it has ever been, and the company just grows and grows. I fund it myself, so financially I’m now in a position where I can afford to do more. And as with any business, the more money you have, the more things you can afford to do.
Rap Coalition is sort of like a labor union?
Yeah, exactly. We have a health care and dental plan. When an artist is in an unfair contract, they can step to us and we’ll help break their contract. We’re very supportive of artists and their needs.
What are the most common clauses you’ve found in “unfair” contracts?
Labels advance a large amount of money and don’t pay the artist their percentage on the back-end, because they feel they are doing a lot for the project. Most contracts that I deal with, the artist has some control over what percent of their earnings is sent where. Since they’re really paying for it, they should have a right to say where the money goes. Most of the unfair contracts that I see are a split between power of creative control and split of income.
What do you warn artists to look for?
Areas where the label can “recoup.” What that means is, money they are allowed to put out on the artists’ benefit and take back on the back-end. For example, independent radio promotion. That’s where I fight a lot, because the record label feels that no matter how much money they send, they’re gonna recoup it anyway. And very often, they will send money for three or four artists that are signed to the label, and recoup the lump of money from each. So they’re kinda paying themselves four times, taking from each artists’ budget. That’s something an artist needs to be aware of; they have to make sure that they’re only invoiced for their project when it comes to radio promotion.
As a consultant, have you ever advised an artist not to sign a record deal?
Most often I advise not to sign. The ratio is ten to one.
So you think in some situations, it’s better to stay independent?
In a lot of situations, yes. It really depends on their goals. There are a lot of artists out there who don’t care about ownership and control. A lot just want fame. And any major deal can give you fame, without the money, as long as they work you properly. It’s just a matter of finding out what the artist needs and desires, outlining the options, and letting them make an informed decision. It’s not like Sony is going to sit down with them and say, “With us, you’ll get fame and no money.” There needs to be some sort of mediator, a balance that defines what each deal involves.
Have you ever advised an artist not to sign a contract and the record label renegotiated a better deal?
There have been a lot of those situations. But in order to renegotiate, you have to have a certain level of success to begin with. If they really want an artist, they’ll give them a decent contract.
I’ve heard people say that the Cash Money deal you negotiated with Universal was “unprecedented.” How so?
Absolutely. Universal was willing to advance money and give them an 80/20 split on the back-end, which is unheard of. They were willing to let them own their masters, 100%. This meant after their 3-year deal, they could take their artists and leave.
Why did Universal want Cash Money so badly?
Because they were selling. When I met Cash Money, they had put out 31 different CDs in a period of six years. That’s a lot of talent and a lot of music. Universal’s goal, in that deal, was to get market share. They wanted to sell more records, so based on quantity, Cash Money had proven that they could put out six records a year and still do well.
Outside of Rap Coalition, what other services do you provide to independent artists or record labels?
I consult independent record labels, I help people establish the foundation of their company. I teach them how to sell units, based on what I’ve learned working with people like Master P and Cash Money. People who were able to sell units before getting a deal, kind of like what David Banner did.
There’s a million “record labels,” but what would you say separates a Cash Money or a No Limit from the masses? Why are they successful?
Cash Money was serious about what they did. They had the right artists at the right time. They had a movement, not just records to sell. With Cash Money – and I hate this term – but it was the whole “bling-bling era” and the movement behind them. Master P had a whole marketing movement. He was the first person to market the way a corporate entity like IBM would market to their clientele. He took it to the next level. He had a better business plan, good music, and an image to back it up. Image and music are equally important in music, because you need both the hype and something to back it up.
What route do you usually recommend for independent labels in terms of distribution?
I’m a big fan of Select-O-Hits, they’ve always done right by me. I’ve never had something in writing with them, everything I’ve done has been on a handshake. They have never screwed me, and have always paid the artists. I’ve been very fortunate to find good people that can work the record. And I also hire an independent sales staff to work alongside Select-O-Hits’ sales staff. If there are problems with distribution, that’s usually where it occurs. So I acknowledge it before it becomes a problem.
How does a distributor like Select-O-Hits work?
It’s on consignment. They’re a traditional distributor. Their sole job is to get the album into record stores, and when the record sells, they go and collect the money. They don’t advance money. They are a typical old-school distributor.
On the flip side, are there any distributors that you do not recommend?
I think Southwest Wholesale sucks in any shape, form, or fashion. I also don’t recommend AMC, because I watched what Twista went through with “Legit Ballin’.” The first two “Legit Ballin’” records that I helped Twista with sold over 200,000 units. When AMC got ahold of it, they only sold 30,000. And it was the best record yet, so that shows me they didn’t know what they were doing.
What were the problems you encountered with Southwest?
They don’t pay anybody. They have severe payment problems. Artists also claim that they bootleg products on the back-end. Universal Records fined them and banned them from doing business with them for one year, because of bootlegging issues. They were bootlegging records and returning them to Universal for credit, and they got caught. They would press up units that they were returning. It only costs 55 cents to press up, and if you own a pressing plant, it’s even cheaper. And you can return them for a credit of $11.41 each. It’s a nice lick, if you can hit it.
What’s the differences that you see between different markets? Like, Houston for example, why do you think they have so many successful independent artists in comparison to other markets?
Sensibility. When you have one person that can make it happen, and other people can see that they’re doing, it’s the mentality of, “If he can do it, I can do it.” In Memphis, it was Three 6 Mafia. They proved that it could be done. In Houston it was DJ Screw. He started putting out screw tapes and selling a ton of them, so other people saw what they were doing and felt like they could do it too. And of course, Southwest Wholesale was based right there in Houston, so people just gravitated towards them and began putting out records. Once they figured out they weren’t getting paid, though, it became a problem.
So aside from Rap Coalition, you have an independent consulting firm?
Right. The independent consulting company is called PowerMoves. That’s the company that does all the deals. It did the Cash Money deal and David Banner’s deal at Universal. I used to manage artists also. My company was called Visionary Management. I used to manage Twista, Fiend, and others. It made me miserable. I was unhappy as a manager. For me, it was glorified babysitting. Of course, it has to do with the artists that I chose to manage, because they all had problems with their labels that weren’t their fault. They were just in bad situations to begin with, and they were people with strong business minds and I felt like I could make a difference in their lives. But it’s very difficult to work with someone who’s been screwed, because they’re always on the defensive. Although they know you’re trying to help them, it’s still difficult for them to trust you. I was always working with trust issues, even though they knew they could trust me. Everything I did was being second-guessed, and people became very nervous when the money didn’t come in right away. So they began doing side moves that I thought were shady. They felt like they had to do this, to feed their families. It’s a shame, because other than C Murder, David Banner, and Kamikaze, there’s no one that I used to manage that still maintain a relationship with me. I’m very bitter. I haven’t spoken to Twista in three years.
So you had a fall-out with Twista? Over what?
We had a fight over money. It’s always over money. Twista decided that he didn’t need to pay anyone. He didn’t pay me, he didn’t pay the president of his label – who put up millions of dollars to build up Legit Ballin’ Records – and he just bounced on us. There’s another guy in Chicago that was giving him money to feed his family, and as soon as the money came, he bounced on him too. He knows what he’s done, and he’s tried to get back in touch with me, but I have nothing to say to him. There’s nothing he could say. He fucked up.
Are there any other relationships that soured?
Cash Money. After I did their deal, the money came, and I didn’t get paid. I had to sue them to get paid. It took me three years to get paid. And they didn’t understand that I had worked for them free of charge for nine months. I depended on that money they owed me. I couldn’t pay my rent, credit cards. I got evicted and lost everything that I owned. The sheriff came and put all my shit on the street. It was really ugly. For someone who had done such an amazing deal, I shouldn’t have had to pay that price. It was greed and ignorance on their part.
How did you feel when you heard that B.G. and Juvenile had left Cash Money?
I knew it would happen. I didn’t take it personally, because it wasn’t like I was the only person they didn’t pay. They didn’t pay their studio bills, t-shirt manufacturer, artists, distributors, and the mastering studio. They didn’t pay anybody. And now, it’s obvious what’s happened. They’re done. All their artists have left. It won’t surprise me if Mannie or Wayne leave. They had a beautiful business plan, but once the money came, they just flipped. They were the last people that I thought it would happen to.
Anything else you’d like to add?
For more information, visit any of my websites: www.RapCointelpro.com, www.RapCoalition.org, www.ArtistsRoyalties.com, or www.Inside-The-Industry.com
- Interview and photo by Julia Beverly, jb@ozonemag.com
