What was your career path? Did you go to college?
I did go to college. I studied Economics and Secondary Education at SUNY-Binghamton. Looking back, I probably would’ve taken those five and a half years and just worked towards my future career. At the time, I just didn’t know what I wanted to do.
At what point did you start transitioning into the music business?
I was doing college parties, but at the time I didn’t really look at it as a career. It was just something I liked to do for fun. I was making real good money, but I never took it seriously because it just wasn’t something you studied in school. But it helped me become more and more business-minded. To do a party, it might seem like all you’re doing is calling a bunch of your friends, but it’s a whole lot more than that. You’ve got to negotiate deals with shiesty club owners and deal with record labels to bring in artists. I brought every act who was hot at the time: Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Nice & Smooth, Brand Nubian, Das EFX. I had an ill crowd. If you were in any New York state college, chances are you were coming to our events. I started dealing with management and records labels to bring in acts, and that was my segway into the music business.
Do you have a “Kanye West” attitude towards college?
That’s probably one of the best questions I’ve ever been asked. And yeah, it’s true, I really do have a Kanye West attitude towards college. The reason it took me so long to graduate is cause I took two semesters off. It was my life’s mission to find out what I wanted to do with my life. My career was extremely important to me, even at that young age. I was away at school, and you have nothing but fun on a college campus. But my mind was focused on ten, twenty years down the road. I left school because I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I just knew for a fact that it wasn’t in any of those books or classes I was taking. I felt brainwashed. A lot of people are brainwashed. From the time you’re very small, society tells you that if you go to school, that’s great. You did real good, your family’s proud. Especially if you’re a young black man, I was the first person in my family to ever go to school so that was a major achievement. In society’s eyes and my family’s eyes I was doing extremely well. They wanted me to go for a more traditional career, but I knew that a 9-5 was never me. I’ve always been a hustler at heart.
Why did you go back and finish?
It’s just like anything else in my life. You can ask anybody who knows me. I won’t lose at shit. If I start something, best believe I’m gonna finish it unless God strikes me down. I’m trying to win, and win big. When I left school, I thought I wanted to be a party promoter. I was making a couple G’s a week and I was happy. I mean, if you’ve got $3,500 cash in your pocket each week, that’s good money. So, all things considered, I was doing really good. I just went back and finished it off. I didn’t even go to my graduation, I just wanted to get out of there.
How did you end up at Bad Boy?
I’ve been working at Bad Boy for seven years, and I just want to say for the record that Bad Boy is the shit. I wouldn’t want to work at any other label – unless they’re willing to cut me a hell of a check (laughing). When I finally realized what I wanted to do with my life, I just went back to school to complete it. I really had no interest in school. I was doing internships while I was in school. This was in the early 90’s. I did an internship at Arista Records and I hated it. Then I did an internship at Atlantic Records. Couldn’t stand it. I got frustrated with record labels. After those internships, I was like, man, if that’s what it’s like then I really don’t want to be a part of the music business. I was actually a social worker for a couple years, doing my parties on the side.
Why did you hate the internships at Arista and Atlantic?
I knew that I loved the industry, I just didn’t love it in that capacity. I knew there had to be something better. They were extremely corporate. At those labels, you’re extremely compartmentalized. If you’re working in one department, they don’t allow you to venture into anything else. Me, I’m a free spirit. I like to conquer, I like to fuckin’ just take over. My first internship at Arista was in publicity, and literally, all I did every day all day was publicity stuff: look in papers, see if any Arista artists made the paper, cut out clippings. Come on. Then I was at Atlantic in the A&R department, and again, all they wanted me to focus on was A&R. At the time I was working with a guy named Kevin Woodley, who became my mentor. He’d let me do my thing, go to the studio, set up studio time, and do a lot of the paperwork on the backend. But I had ideas past just creating a hot album. Over there, once it’s out of the A&R’s hands, it’s literally out of their hands. Once the project is out of the studio, they don’t want you to have anything to do with developing it. Even though you’ve nurtured the act from day one, you don’t get to be a part of the process of helping blow that act up. I hated that. And in the meetings, literally, you couldn’t even throw your ideas out.
Who were some of the acts you worked with at Atlantic?
Believe it or not, I tried to get Jay-Z signed to Atlantic. I was begging them. Dame Dash had a group on Atlantic called Original Flavor. And I swear to God, Damon is the exact same person today. That cocky attitude. His group was not doing well, so most managers would know they don’t even have leverage. Dame had no leverage but he still walked up in the office like a fuckin’ savage asshole. I’ll never forget it: he had a big argument up in there like, “I should be runnin’ this whole fuckin’ black music department. Y’all don’t know shit.” And I’m looking at this dude like, your group sold two records – what are you talking about? But the point is, he had that same attitude that he has today, so it’s not hard to see why he’s made it to where he’s at. Even back then, he had that attitude: you might be in the position, but I can still do the shit better than you, I’m smarter than you, I have more hustle than you, and I know this fuckin’ music better than you. A lot of the people working at Atlantic were older. They’d had their jobs for twenty years. How can you get somebody to be motivated and be out in the clubs breaking a rap act if all they’re worried about is their pension plan, or whatever the fuck they get after twenty years? So, Dame was trying to get Jay-Z a single deal. I guess they kickin’ themselves in the ass right now for that one.
Were these paid internships?
These were all unpaid.
How did you survive? Ramen noodles?
Exactly. Honestly, I was fucked up. But, I’ve always been good with saving my money. I was using up the money in my bank account and living very, very tight. Finally, a friend of mine told me that Bad Boy was looking for an intern. At first I was hesitant.
What was different about the Bad Boy internship?
When I came to Bad Boy, I swear to you, I knew after the first day. It was people who looked like me, acted like me, talked like me, and had the same energy as me. Bad Boy was an office no bigger than this room we’re sitting in right now. We were on 19th St. This was in between Biggie’s first and second albums, so he was just starting to blow. Nobody was professional. It was not a corporate atmosphere. But it was the hungriest group of young black executives I’d ever seen in my life, and I felt like I belonged. After the first day, I walked out of the office and I knew that this is where I’d make my mark in the industry. I knew it. Here, it doesn’t matter what you do. Like, I have the title of Senior Director of Promotions, but I’m involved in every aspect: marketing, A&R, everything. Here, everybody’s involved. You can wear as many hats as you choose to wear as long as you don’t drop the ball. We’re multi-taskers; soldiers. If you want to join an army, go to one of those other places. But if you’re trying to get down with the Navy Seals and green berets and you want to be on the front lines of some special ops mission, that’s the kind of energy I felt at Bad Boy. I fit right in. There’s been a lot of people in and out over the years, but I knew I would somehow find my way through the ranks because the energy matched mine.
To a lot of people, Bad Boy is synonymous with P Diddy. He’s known as being a perfectionist; is it difficult to work for him?
As a boss, I think he’s a genius. I don’t have anything bad to say about him, and even if I did, I wouldn’t say it in a public arena out of respect. What I’ve noticed about successful people is that it’s no accident that they’re successful. Whatever achievements they’ve made in life, it’s no accident, unless you hit the lotto or something (laughing). When you look at Puff, Russell Simmons, Master P, Dame Dash, or even someone who’s not as much in the public eye like Steve Stoute, these guys’ work ethic is incredible. I meet people every day who claim, “I want it, I’ll work hard,” but they don’t know the fuckin’ meaning of working hard. Working hard is going days on end with no sleep. It’s when a thousand walls and obstacles are put in your way and you don’t stop. Instead of saying, “I can’t do this,” you just figure out a way to go through it, around it, over it, or whatever. You figure it out. If you don’t know Puff, the best way I could describe him is to listen to him when he says, “Can’t stop, won’t stop.” That’s who he is. This dude is a fuckin’ machine. I mean, I work harder than, like, 90% of the people I know (Shawn turns to Power Moves’ publicist: “Who works harder than me? For real?” She shakes her head, “I can’t think of anybody.”). Well, anyway, as hard as I work, I swear to you, there’s never been one day in my career that I felt like I worked harder than Sean “P Diddy” Combs. He’s a beast.
With all the other projects Puff works on, do you feel like the record label itself suffers?
Well, Puff does have a lot of other things going on. 2004 was a great year for him. He ran the marathon, then went on to Broadway and sold out every night in Raisin in the Sun, then he came off that and went on the campaign trail with Vote or Die. I don’t necessarily think the label suffers because he chooses to grow as a celebrity and an individual, I think that the artists on the label gotta step up. That’s like saying Roc-A-Fella can’t survive without Jay-Z. But Jay-Z is one artist. If the rest of artists don’t truly grow and do their part, you can’t blame him.
Who do you think is gonna step up for Bad Boy?
We’ve got some new acts, fresh blood. I was in the studio til 2 AM yesterday messin’ with some new music. We’ve got a group, Boyz in the Hood, which is a Southern group that’s really startin’ to pop off. I think they have something. I think they’re bringing another side of the South. Lil Jon and what he’s doing is more crunk, in-the-club, throw-ya-hands-up type music, but these guys are more gritty and street. If you look at portions of the South, you can see that they don’t call it Dirty South for nothin’. Their shit is really street, and I think that’s what they’re reflecting. We also have a group called B5, which is five brothers from Atlanta. Quote me on this: this group is gonna be a monster. They’re so talented. They sing, they dance, they’re photogenic, they play instruments, and I think they’re gonna fill that void of where B2K left off, cause there’s really nobody in that space right now.
You were involved in the filming of Making the Band. Was the storylines we saw on TV accurate, as far as what actually happened?
I lived through Making the Band. It was not doctored for TV. The shit was what it was. Everything you saw on Making the Band was real; it was not staged. But, I think there’s a bigger picture. I don’t think the group members really wanted it. I think they’re a good example of what many artists are today. They may think they want to be the biggest artist in the world and win Grammys, but there’s a work ethic and an appreciation and love for the game that comes with it. As talented as that group was, I’m not sure that they had an intense love for the game. They weren’t prepared to give 200% of their lives to become superstars, and that’s what it takes. If not, you’re gonna be weeded out. I think what everybody saw on TV is indicative of the music business as a whole. A lot of people get in the music business for the wrong reasons, and then they find out very quickly that this is a business. When you got the deal, you can walk in any club in your city and everybody’s stopping their cars, pulling over to get autographs. But when you don’t have that hit record no more and your video isn’t playing, when you get to the club they putting you at the back of the line. And you’ve gotta pay.
Was there any member of Da Band that you personally clicked with?
Yeah, absolutely. Three of them. Probably Choppa the most, that’s like my little brother. He’s on Bad Boy South, and his new stuff is phenomenal. Choppa’s a star, no question. I also clicked with Ness and Babs, those were the main three. And coincidentally those were also the three that ended up getting kept. I know for a fact that it was their work ethic that kept them around. It wasn’t like we just cut people, we actually sat down and had a meeting to decide who stays and who goes. It was me, Puff, Harve [Pierre], Conrad [Dimanche], and Phil [Robinson], and most of our decision was based on their work ethic. Choppa’s like a lil Puff when it comes to his work ethic, and Ness and Babs too.
Besides work ethic, what does it take to be successful in the music business in general?
First and foremost, you’ve got to have that work ethic. Secondly, and this is equally important, you’ve got to have a love for what you do. I’m not just talking about music, I’m talking about life. If you love doing something, you won’t mind getting up in the morning.
What is it you love about the music business?
I love the fact that I went from being an intern to being part of Puffy’s management team. I love the fact that I conquered the promotions end of it. I started on the street team, then I was running the NY street team, then I was running the national street team and dealing with mixtape DJs. Then I became the national promotions director, and now I’m a part of Puffy’s management team. Plus, the fact that I was able to create my own company and work with other clients, which only enhances the strength of what we do at Bad Boy.
How are you able to work at Bad Boy and run your own company?
A good staff. My company is Power Moves Marketing & Promotions.
Do you focus mainly on street teams?
That is part of what we do, one of the foundations. But outside of Bad Boy, I deal with almost no record labels. I really have to believe in your record to get behind it. A lot of the corporate clients we deal with are just now being introduced to the concept of street teams. We also do high-end publicity stunts. Like, for example, Spike TV is one of our clients. They had a show called “I Hate My Job.” Basically, the premise for the show is people who hate their jobs doing the regular rigmarole, so they quit their jobs to pursue their dream job. Rev. Al Sharpton was their ambassador; he was kinda like what Trump is to The Apprentice. He would help usher them into their new careers. So, we did this publicity stunt where we got a bunch of Al Sharpton look-alikes. The whole point of a publicity stunt is to get free publicity. So, on the morning the show was introduced, you’re walking through Times Square and you see all these Al Sharptons. Of course, you’re gonna stop and look. We got all this publicity on Fox & Friends, Channel 11 WB, and a bunch of newspapers. That was something that didn’t cost much in comparison to traditional advertising. They got an assload of free publicity, which helped launch the show in the right direction.
How could someone get in contact with you to hire Power Moves?
They can call 212-381-1578 or go to www.PowerMovesInc.com .
Is there anything else you’d like to say?
Watch out for Boyz in The Hood, B5, and Black Rob has a new album dropping this spring. And I just want to emphasize for anybody who’s really struggling with where they want to go in their career that you have to believe in yourself enough that you’re willing to burn the bridges of retreat. That might even mean quitting your job. As long as you have something to fall back on, you’re never gonna go 200%. If you put your life on the line, you’ll find a way to succeed in whatever you’re trying to do. That’s it. And shouts to OZONE!
- Photos and interview by Julia Beverly, jb@ozonemag.com
